108. On difficult colleagues and companies that are not democracies

Hi everyone and welcome to Project Mindset, the channel for all those who know that with the right mindset, anything is possible. Have you ever had a colleague or employee who drove you absolutely crazy, to the point of driving you insane? I had at least one such employee who was brilliant at what he did, but discussions with him were a complete disaster. It was only through this one employee that I truly felt alive and learned why companies aren’t democracies and why they shouldn’t be.

Before I get to the actual story, thank you so much for joining me today. I’m truly delighted that you tune in regularly and send me feedback. It means the world to me. And it’s kind of my reward for all the effort I put into this podcast. Not just the recording, the podcast itself, the editing, but also the brainstorming, structuring, and writing down of ideas. What do I want to talk about? What’s actually valuable enough for me to share, something you might be able to take away from it, or something that will simply entertain you for 10 or 15 minutes?

The story of Full Control

And the fact that you’re listening to me is absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for that. But now back to the employee who drove me absolutely crazy back then. I’ve already told the story of Full Control, of Full Control GmbH, a few times. That was my startup at the time. We got off to a fantastic start. We developed sports abs and also took on orders from large companies to keep us somewhat liquid. And it was a really great, but also very stressful time, because on the one hand we wanted to launch a product, and on the other hand we were also providing services to other companies.

I learned so much during that time. And ultimately, as I’ve mentioned several times before, I made a few wrong decisions here and there with Full Control. Unfortunately, that’s how it came about that I had to give up Full Control, which was incredibly difficult for me because it was pretty much my first big project. And when I gave it up, I was in a really deep emotional hole. Only afterwards did I realize how important that experience actually was, that you can also…

Learning from difficult experiences

It’s actually not so bad to suffer a big loss and be a bit down at first, because it really makes you think. That’s how I ended up starting the podcast, and I talk about that failure I had back then a lot and in great detail here and there. So I’m incredibly grateful for that experience. But I’ll never forget that one colleague, or that one employee. A really nice guy.

A really nice guy. Back then, I needed someone for the user experience (UX) of our apps—a good designer who also had a feel for what was currently trending or what would be trendy in the future. Not just how to create beautiful designs, but also how to implement them effectively within the app. You know, especially with iPhone apps, it’s extremely important that they have great usability and look fantastic. And finding this particular employee was a perfect match.

It’s truly ingenious. Here’s a small example. It was in 2014 or 2015. I’m not even sure anymore. Back then, there wasn’t this typical right swipe. You might know it if you use the Apple Music app or something similar, where you can swipe right. Instead, swiping down and scrolling up was pretty much the standard for apps. And he told me at the time, “Hey, Riza, for the app we’re currently developing, I’d like to have a right-swipe-right-right functionality implemented.”

An employee with strong ideas

I was so impressed. Okay, I hadn’t seen anything like it until now, something that’s completely standard today, but back then it was genuinely new, and that’s how it came about. A little later, Apple Music also came out with some kind of functionality like swiping right and so on. I don’t even know exactly how soon, or maybe even a year or two later. I can’t remember precisely. He was so creative, and one thing he did was so good—something I’ll still tell everyone today and attest to—that he’s a fantastic UX designer.

But discussing things with him was a complete disaster. He insisted on discussing everything, even whenever I was close to making a decision, like, “We’re going to do this or that,” or “We’re going to add this functionality to the app,” or “Here’s a strategic shift I’m planning and have already told the team.” He always wanted to discuss everything. I did engage in the discussion about many things, actually pretty much everything, because I’m very open to being challenged and told what isn’t working or isn’t going well. I’m completely open to that.

Continued

But he was one of those candidates who wanted to discuss things every single time—I don’t mean just for half an hour, but really for three-quarters of an hour, an hour, two hours, or even more—and make his opinion, his point of view, perfectly clear to me. In many of these discussions, I engaged with him, tried to explain. But there were a few discussions that really stuck with me. And one of them was—and that’s how I came to today’s podcast episode. I’ll never forget it.

It was about something we were discussing. I had a different point of view than he did. And at some point, I said, “Hey, dear X, Y, Z, you don’t have all the information I have to make this good decision. So please trust me, because I’ve also received input and information from other sources, and I might have a different perspective on the situation than you do. And perhaps you can simply trust me and hope that I’ll make the right decision because I have more information.”

He didn’t accept anything, started all over again, wanted to explain to me again why his point of view was better, why his opinion was superior, and so on. And at some point, about half an hour later, I finally said, “So I’ll repeat it again. Dear X, Y, Z, companies are not democracies. I am the owner. I am the largest shareholder here. It’s my financial risk. If my decision is wrong, then I have to face the consequences. So please accept it.”

Clear decisions despite discussions

This isn’t a democracy where you have the same voting rights as me. I was actually really unhappy to have to express it like that. But I thought there was simply no other way. I don’t want to get rid of him as an employee, because he was truly brilliant at what he did. So it wasn’t like I was thinking, “Ugh, now I have to figure out how to get rid of him.” No, it was simply a request to discuss it. It’s nice. You told me what it’s about.

And now deal with my decision. The funny thing was, when I was really so firm—it almost became aggressive, as I put it—when I said, really so firmly, “This isn’t democracy. I’m sorry. So, this is my decision, and I don’t want to discuss it further.” The only thing he said was, “Oh, yeah, okay.” And that was it. I was like, “Okay,” and what was perplexing was that he didn’t try to explain again why his opinion was better.

I just left it at that. He left, too. That was fine with me. And then, funnily enough, I found out later. It was during a conversation with millions of his family members. We knew each other well personally, or at least we do. And I realized that with these people, he simply wanted to make his point clear. He just wanted to explain his opinion, his position. Whether it was actually done or not was almost irrelevant to him.

Understanding the other person’s point of view

He just wants to make it clear. This is my position. And he wants to make it so clear, and repeat it so often, that it’s crystal clear it’s his position. And funnily enough, this particular employee—I still won’t mention his name—is half French. So that’s all I’ll say about it. If he’s listening, he’ll obviously know who I’m talking about. But I’ve heard this about French people from various sources. Some of them are like that. They just want to have their way.

Whether it gets implemented or not is completely irrelevant. And this cultural aspect really struck me again at that moment, because I believe discussions are indeed culturally significant. You can tell a little bit about where someone comes from, what their background is. For example, what I really appreciate about Germans is that you can have a really tough discussion with them. I mean, where you think, okay, we’re about to have a real argument. But afterwards, you can still go for a beer. That’s not possible with everyone.

Different discussion cultures

I would also say that’s true for Iranians. I’m Iranian, born and raised in Iran, and I’ve lived here for the second time in my life. But with us Iranians, if you have a heated discussion, you’re not going for a beer together afterward. And you’re definitely not on friendly terms anymore. And that’s something I’ve really learned here through German culture. You can be tough on the issue, but still remain fair. And you can always have a beer afterward. I’ve seen this so many times in my life, in various roles, where I sometimes thought I was just having a discussion with a colleague or a superior.

Continued

And then it almost turned into a real argument. But in the end, everything was fine. Work is work. Afterwards, we still went for a beer, and that was perfectly okay. With Iranians, for example, something like that would be completely unthinkable. If you Iranians are listening, I’m sure you can confirm this. When you have such a heated discussion, you don’t just go for a beer together afterwards; you’re bound to have some tension or a fight. And this cultural aspect, that’s become a bit clearer to me over the years.

Ironically, Italians are a bit different. I had a lot of meetings back then. I was working at a large IT consulting firm with Italian colleagues, and they’re just a bit more relaxed. So, a 10 a.m. meeting meant we’d be online around 10 a.m., for example, and then meet up and discuss something. And an Italian friend of mine actually confirmed that. It’s just that they have a different sense of time, and 10 a.m. is just a guideline, and so on.

I always find it quite amusing that I’ve learned so much over the years. Of course, that cultures are different, that you have to be sensitive to how a person thinks. And I’ve also become a bit more aware of that. I pay more attention to who I’m actually talking to. I try, of course, to be objective and not judge based on value judgments like, “This is better” or “That is worse.” But I’ve learned that you sometimes have to treat individual cultures or individual people differently.

Communication in a cultural context

The way they say things, the way they greet someone, say goodbye, the way they discuss things—it’s all incredibly different. And that’s been a huge lesson for me in life: that on the one hand, I have to take a person’s cultural background seriously. Where do they come from? What’s their general way of thinking? I have my own quirks, too. I think other people then know how to handle me. That’s one side of it, and that’s another.

To come back to the topic of companies not being democracies, I can understand it much better when I talk to entrepreneurs who make strange, perhaps initially strange, decisions. But I can understand it much better now. Yes, that’s their risk. They want to make decisions to the best of their knowledge and conscience, so that the company can continue in any case. And what you also have to give them credit for is that they naturally have a better overview of the situation.

So, not just the one perspective from one department, but they might then be familiar with all departments. They at least get a sense of their viewpoints. And that, of course, allows them to make better decisions. Based on this experience—this is perhaps a bit of a digression. I mean, we inevitably deal with the topic of politics in some form or another from time to time. And we all certainly have the feeling—I definitely do, 100 percent—that I sometimes wonder, hey, wow, how exactly do politicians decide on this or that issue?

Decisions based on differing information

Or why do they do it this way or that way? But then I’m brought back down to earth when I sometimes can’t understand decisions at all. Yes, of course, the person making the decision has probably gathered information from a wide variety of sources. They then tried to decide to the best of their knowledge, with the best knowledge they had at that moment. Therefore, I also believe that, of course, disastrously wrong decisions are made.

But I actually believe that most people trying to make decisions really try to consider all perspectives, all the information they have, and then base their decision on that. That’s more or less my experience. And maybe a word or two about the topic of companies themselves. I find it incredibly interesting to come back to that. When I talk to entrepreneurs, also from a cultural perspective, especially when we’re looking at an American company.

I find that incredibly interesting. From the way titles are given to the way people communicate, Americans really do think differently than Germans. It has to be said. Let’s start, for example, with the title of managing director. In German, yes, he manages the business. That doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a shareholder, but he manages the business. The term managing director describes it perfectly, in my view. Managing director, he manages the business.

Continued

With the Americans, it’s something I find quite amusing: it’s pure military jargon. The CEOs or board members are called Chief Executive Officers. So, Chief and Officer—that’s military jargon par excellence. I mean, the “Officer” alone—that’s a bit, not just a bit, military-sounding. And I’ve noticed this in recent years, also in my work with American companies; I’ve actually had the opportunity to work in a few of them.

Companies, especially American companies, are very CEO-centric, meaning Chief Executive Officer. There’s one person who makes the decisions. It’s almost completely irrelevant whether the entire company supports them. He makes the decision; that’s how many companies aren’t democracies. And everyone has to accept it, or rather, everyone has to come to terms with it. The same goes for the other titles, of course: Chief of Staff, Chief of, I don’t know, Chief Marketing Officer, and so on and so forth. You can see this military-style system for advancing a business.

And I find it incredibly interesting that the cultural aspect comes through here as well. The president, the American president, is also, in a way, the supreme, how do you say it, the supreme commander of the military. I don’t even know how to say it, what the correct expression is. But he can, under various aspects and circumstances, essentially decide on his own what the military should do and how. So many decisions aren’t discussed with parliament like they are here; in the US, the president makes them.

Further thoughts on entrepreneurship

And I find it incredibly interesting that this perspective has also extended to the topic of entrepreneurship in the USA. I have no idea whether it’s a better or worse approach compared to a German system. But I find it fascinating that this cultural influence has definitely had a profound impact on business in the USA. So, as in the last podcast episodes, my main focus wasn’t actually on providing mindset tools. I’ll get back to that soon.

So, I’ve been thinking a lot about friendships lately. I’ll go into that a bit more in the next few episodes. I’ve had some experiences I’d like to share with you. A few mindset tools I use that I’d like to pass on to you. I’ll definitely discuss all of that in the next few episodes. But in the last few episodes, including today’s, it’s been more about a few stories from my life. Some interesting things I’ve learned, some experiences I’ve had.

And I hope you enjoyed it today. So, I’ll talk again soon. Thank you for listening. See you again soon, and don’t forget, until then, mindset is everything.