ICE escalation and the new Davos world order: is this still the rule of law?
ICE escalation and Davos: Reza Mehman and journalist Karsten Kammholz discuss immigration enforcement in the US, the disruption of the old world order at Davos and what it means for Germany.
English translation of the article published on 5 February 2026, including its complete transcript. Political assessments and descriptions of events reflect the speakers’ discussion at that time. The transcript starts mid-conversation, as in the German original.
Discussing ICE escalation and Davos
Disturbing images from Minneapolis: the episode discusses video-recorded killings of two people during immigration enforcement operations, described in the conversation as involving ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) officers. Meanwhile, leaders in Davos are talking about a “new world order”. In this podcast episode, Reza Mehman and journalist Karsten Kammholz examine whether the US under Trump still upholds the rule of law. They also discuss what the World Economic Forum in Davos reveals about the new world order, and what it all means for Germany and Europe.
Summary
One-sentence version: Reza Mehman and Karsten Kammholz analyse ICE escalation in the US, the new world order after Davos and the implications for Germany.
Three-sentence version: The discussion covers the video-recorded killings of two people during immigration enforcement operations in Minneapolis, which Kammholz describes as “almost state terrorism”. In formal terms, he argues, Trump is implementing his promise to drastically reduce illegal immigration. At Davos, talk of a “new world order” reflects his assessment that the old order based on Western partnership no longer exists.
Five-sentence version: The episode discusses the video-recorded killings of two people during immigration enforcement operations in Minneapolis. Kammholz calls the events “almost state terrorism” and argues that killing the two people was never necessary. In formal terms, he says, Trump is implementing his promise to drastically reduce illegal immigration. The conversation notes that ICE officers have police powers and may carry weapons. At Davos, leaders speak of a “new world order”: Kammholz argues that the old order based on Western partnership no longer exists, a point he says the Canadian prime minister made clearly.
Context: who, what and why
Who is speaking: Reza Mehman and journalist Karsten Kammholz (Welt am Sonntag).
What the episode covers: ICE escalation in the US, the rule of law under Trump and the new world order after Davos.
Why it matters: The speakers argue that the US under Trump is changing fundamentally, with direct consequences for Germany and Europe. In their assessment, the old world order no longer exists.
Three central questions in this episode:
- Does what ICE is doing in Minneapolis still comply with the rule of law?
- What does Davos reveal about the new world order?
- What does it mean for Germany and Europe?
Contents
- Introduction
- Summary
- Context
- Themes and analysis
- Key points
- Frequently asked questions
- Highlights in quotes
- The complete conversation
- Keywords
- Names and terms
- Passage for quotation
Themes and analysis
1. ICE escalation: the rule of law under Trump
The conversation addresses the video-recorded killings of two people during immigration enforcement operations in Minneapolis. Kammholz describes the events as “almost state terrorism”.
Keywords: ICE, Minneapolis, deportation, rule of law, Trump, state terrorism
2. Trump implements what he promised
Trump promised during his campaign to drastically reduce illegal immigration. The discussion notes that ICE officers have police powers and may carry weapons.
Keywords: Trump, illegal immigration, ICE, campaign promises, police powers
3. Davos and the new world order
At Davos, everyone is talking about a “new world order”. Kammholz argues that the old order based on Western partnership no longer exists.
Keywords: Davos, world order, WEF, Klaus Schwab, America First, Canada
4. Germany and Europe in the new world order
Germany and Europe must reposition themselves. Germans’ traditional affection for America is being tested.
Keywords: Germany, Europe, America, friendship, new world order
5. Forums such as Davos and the Munich Security Conference
Kammholz advocates more forums of this kind, including with China and Russia. He believes the world is safer when such informal opportunities for dialogue exist.
Keywords: Davos, Munich Security Conference, China, Russia, diplomacy
Key points from the discussion
- The episode discusses two video-recorded killings during immigration enforcement operations in Minneapolis. Kammholz argues that killing the two people was never necessary.
- Kammholz: “It almost has something of state terrorism about it, to put it very bluntly.”
- In formal terms, Kammholz says, Trump is implementing his promise to drastically reduce illegal immigration.
- The discussion notes that ICE officers have police powers and may carry weapons.
- According to Kammholz, Trump even backtracked a little after the second death.
- Germans have always had a particular affection for America. Now they are asking whether they still want to go there.
- At Davos, everyone is talking about a “new world order”; Kammholz argues that the old one no longer exists.
- The Canadian prime minister, he says, made it clear in Davos that the old world order is not coming back.
- Kammholz characterises America First as the US turning away from Western partnership and relying on its own strength.
- He advocates more forums like Davos and the Munich Security Conference, including dialogue with China and Russia.
Frequently asked questions
What is ICE, and what happened in Minneapolis?
ICE stands for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a US immigration enforcement agency. The episode discusses the video-recorded killings of two people during immigration enforcement operations in Minneapolis, described by the speakers as involving ICE officers. Karsten Kammholz calls the events “almost state terrorism”, arguing that killing the two people was never necessary. He also says Trump backtracked a little after the second death.
Does what ICE is doing still comply with the rule of law?
In formal terms, the discussion argues, Trump is implementing his promise to drastically reduce illegal immigration. ICE officers have police powers and may carry weapons. Whether their actions uphold the rule of law is a separate question: Kammholz sees “almost state terrorism” in the events discussed. The source article also refers to immunity not being absolute and describes the abuses as deeply disturbing; these are the conversation’s assessments, rather than a legal determination.
What is the “new world order” discussed at Davos?
Kammholz argues that the old order, based on Western partnership and multilateral cooperation, no longer exists. In his account, America First means the US no longer sees itself primarily as a partner of the Western world, but as strong in its own right. He says the Canadian prime minister made it clear at Davos that the old order will not return. Other national leaders must reposition themselves.
What is the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos?
The conversation describes the World Economic Forum in Davos as a privately organised forum associated with Klaus Schwab, bringing politicians, business figures and other decision-makers together in an informal setting. Kammholz sees it as important: where else can national leaders and business executives speak frankly face to face and make deals without cameras and microphones?
What does the new world order mean for Germany?
In the speakers’ assessment, Germany must reposition itself. Germans’ traditional affection for America is being tested, with many wondering whether they still want to travel to the US. Europe needs to become stronger in its own right. Kammholz advocates more forums such as Davos and the Munich Security Conference, including dialogue with China and Russia.
Highlights in quotes
“What is happening there almost has something of state terrorism about it, to put it very bluntly.”
— Karsten Kammholz on ICE escalation in Minneapolis
“In formal terms, Trump is implementing what he promised. That is the context to begin with.”
— Karsten Kammholz
“Germans have always had a particular affection for America. And now you look at this country and ask yourself: do I even want to go there again?”
— Karsten Kammholz
“The world order we became accustomed to over decades simply no longer exists.”
— Karsten Kammholz
“My feeling is that the world is a safer place when forums like these exist.”
— Karsten Kammholz on Davos and the Munich Security Conference
The complete conversation
ICE escalation: what happened in Minneapolis?
Karsten Kammholz:
Not complete immunity, number one. And number two: do the US, and Trump in particular, want us to get used to these abuses, so that perhaps something even worse can happen? As far as what Trump ultimately promised during his campaign is concerned, you have to say that he has now proved true to his word. It is simply being implemented right now. He said illegal immigration would be drastically reduced. This agency has been given police powers. Its officers are allowed to carry weapons. You have just described the shocking things that happened in Minneapolis. So, in formal terms, Trump is implementing what he promised. That is the context to begin with. At the same time, you are profoundly shaken when you see what is happening, because Germans have always had a particular affection for America.
Germans love travelling around this country. Americans are nice, somehow. They are helpful. There is no corner of this country where we would say we did not want to go. Germans have always been curious about America. And now you look at this country and ask yourself: do I even want to go there again? Is this still the America that always had a special friendship with Germany, that also liberated Germany from the Nazi regime? All of that resonates when we look at these images. It shakes me profoundly. What is striking is that everything we are seeing in Minneapolis right now is documented.
Assessing the video footage in the conversation
That means you can see very explicitly how these two people were killed. And you can see, or at least interpret the footage as showing, that killing these people was never necessary. What is happening there almost has something of state terrorism about it, to put it very bluntly. After the second death, Trump even backtracked a little and said that he did not think that was very good either.
Davos and the new world order
Reza Mehman:
Only a few years ago, I thought Davos was something organised by the Swiss state. They wanted to do something good for the world. They wanted politicians, business people and so on to meet and discuss world politics. At some point I realised that the whole thing was actually privately organised, by a Mr Klaus Schwab and so on. I am not making a judgement about its substance. I realised that it is also something of a parade. It is not just about political debate, but also about displays of power and so on: who is there, who is not there? The US was absent a few times; now it is back. I was even a little surprised that Trump attended this time. Perhaps as a general question: what do you actually think of the World Economic Forum, or Davos for short in this context?
Karsten Kammholz:
We urgently need forums like these. This format allows politics and business to network in an informal setting, and I think Davos is becoming more important. The Munich Security Conference is a similar format in security policy. Where else in the world do you have forums where national leaders and business executives can exchange views without cameras pointing at them and microphones switched on all the time? Somewhere they can simply tell each other what they think, face to face and without protocol, and perhaps also strike deals. All of that can happen.
Informal discussions and Greenland
We have just had this example of the NATO secretary general being able to speak informally with Trump again, and somehow they managed to de-escalate the Greenland issue for the time being. Fundamentally, we need these forums. We need them more than ever; in fact, we need many, many more of them. I think we also need forums like these with China, where we can speak quite openly. Actually, we even need them with Russia. Of course, it is incredibly complicated to engage in such an open exchange with totalitarian states. But as long as it is still possible among democrats, we should absolutely do it. My feeling is that the world is a safer place when forums like these exist.
The new world order: what has changed?
Reza Mehman:
Different politicians used the term “world order” surprisingly often in Davos. Please put that into context: why is everyone talking about a new world order now?
Karsten Kammholz:
Because the world order we became accustomed to over decades simply no longer exists. Yet we still had this romantic belief that it might return. Now the Canadian prime minister has made a powerful appearance in Davos and said: forget it, it is not coming back. What was the old world order? We are no longer partners of the Western world. We are strong in our own right. America First. And everyone initially hoped that this would pass. Now that certainty is slowly sinking in among the other national leaders.
Keywords
Tags: ICE escalation, Minneapolis, deportation, rule of law, Trump, state terrorism, Davos, WEF, world order, Klaus Schwab, America First, Karsten Kammholz, Reza Mehman, Munich Security Conference, NATO, Greenland
Names and terms
Reza Mehman, Karsten Kammholz, ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement), Minneapolis, Trump, Davos, WEF (World Economic Forum), Klaus Schwab, America First, world order, Munich Security Conference, NATO, Greenland, Canada, state terrorism
Passage for quotation
The discussion concerns two video-recorded killings during immigration enforcement operations in Minneapolis. Karsten Kammholz: “It almost has something of state terrorism about it.”
In formal terms, he says, Trump is implementing his promise to drastically reduce illegal immigration.
At Davos, everyone is talking about a “new world order”; in Kammholz’s assessment, the old one no longer exists.
He says the Canadian prime minister made it clear that the old world order is not coming back.
Kammholz describes America First as the US turning away from partnership with the Western world and relying on its own strength.
Continue with Episode 178 on democracy, trust and political responsibility.
